Having seen both versions in the last year I have to say that I enjoyed Martin Turner’s more. Andy Powell’s might be the official version but on the night The Hamsters (who were supporting) blew them away. But it would be great if the original line up could all get together again.

….but wasn’t it Andy Powell who kept the Ash going long after everyone else had jumped ship, only for Martin turner to set up a riavl Wishbone?

Old rockers never die, they just bnicker into infinity.

Get a life, Martin.

I’d love to see a reunion…but not if they were unhappy, and as that’s clearly what they would be…there’s no point. I’d rather see Martin’s band any day, it’s just a shame that this is the way it ends. But there we are. I don’t see MTWA as a rival Ash, but as a more accurate reincarnation of the original band.

I saw ‘Wishbone Ash’ last year and was massively disappointed. The band was tight as a drum, but it all seemed a bit too slick, and Andy Powell’s vocals were bloody awful. Haven’t seen Martin Turner’s band, but if 3 of the originals are getting back together it would be bloody fantastic.

Would love to see Ted Turner and his brother Martin, who I remember was an awesome bass player and has to be the voice of Wishbone Ash

It’s one thing keeping a band going, but if it’s a pale imitation (which it was when I saw them) then they might have been better off giving up.

3 out of 4 will do for me!

what a pissy attitude this poor neglected ex bassist who QUIT the band 3 times, and has formed basically a tribute band of musicos, has toward Wishbone Ash and Andy Powell… Powell has kept the band going for 40 years, and now poor, poor MT just can’t handle the success over the past decade…his promotions are questionable, his promoters are questionable, and his abilities are questionable in comparison to years ago, …no ethics, pure jealousy

Hamsters better? the above poster needs to go find him some bootlegs of those nights and re-listen….they can’t hold a candle to the professionalism and musical abilities of WA…..Andy and Wishbone Ash have had a musical resurgence over the past 15 or so years, and jealously and vengence are obviously the way this performer wants to operate—confusing promotions, using the wrong name, etc……childish even in his interviews..

if you tell enough lies to someone who will promote you, they will believe it…

“like a child…”…Wishbone Ash..

appropo’

I hope this magazine and its editors can see thru the shenanigans as well before giving the above musician anymore publicity…

Wishbone Ash is a band that has never ceased to be, former members have quit, been fired etc but the ship has always floated and Andy Powell has steered the ship since the 80’s. Former members who have recently started playing original Wishbone material should surely only expect an invite to play at the anniversary gig, a reformation of the original band, whilst nostalgic would be unfair on current members, Bob Skeat has been in for 11 years+ now. Martin i have great respect for you but this was unneccessary, you are a former member, just like Ted Turner, Steve Upton, Laurie Wisefield, John Wetton, Trevor Bolder , all part of its history. Cant agree with some previous postings, just get a listen to ‘power of Eternity’ WA has moved on, so should others.

Having seen Wishbone Ash many times, I kinda grew into them.. I noticed the professional attitude. Working hard every day again to deliver the goods to the fans.. for whatever reason.. Of course, a few glitches along the road, but hey who is perfect? I’ve seen Van Halen, Rush, U2 not delivering the goods at moments.

MTWA doesn’t do it for me as the voice is really not there anymore (the bass is though!). The rest of the musos are ok, but lack the feel to play the music right (as I feel it). Choice of notes, the tone is not what I want to hear (sorry guys). Plus I noticed some nasty managements business.

Dudes, this is not the way to do it…

It’s nothing new for a band to have personnel changes and Wishbone Ash are no exception. There has been many changes in the Wishbone Ash line up over the last forty years but one person alone was there on the 1st day and has been there every day since – Andy Powell.

He clearly fronts the fantastic band that is Wishbone Ash and deserves recognition for that.

It would be great to see a re-union in this 40th anniversary year but it will not be the end of the world if it doesn’t happen.

Any genuine fan of the band and its history knows there is more to this. The Shepherds Bush gig was organised and advertised months ago before which Andy Powell was included in private talks with many past Wishbone Ash members including Martin Turner.

Martin, any true fan of the band knows of and respects your contribution but these public outbursts are costing you support and so I urge you to re-think your position.

I love both versions of Wishbone Ash but Andy’s vocals are not a patch on Martin’s, so I’d go for Martin Turners’ Wishbone Ash any day. As for a reunion, I’d love to see it but don’t think it will happen now.
As for Martin Turner, Steve Upton (founding members) & Ted Turner with another guitarist, now that’s something I’d love to see and probably a possibility.
Incidently, I’ve seen Ted Turner guesting with both Martin Turners’ Wishbone Ash & Andy Powells’ Wishbone Ash.

Seems tragic to me that after all these years, these guys cant bury their differences. You’re a long time dead guys! It would be truly historic to see you back on stage just 1 last time. Mind you Andy Powell’s WA is supported by It Bites – anyone else see a similarity here?

The original WA produced some of the finest ‘geetar’ inspired R&R ever though I admit I have never had the pleasure of seeing them live. I have to say though that the current lineup, led by the inimitable Andy Powell has taken the band to new heights and has raised the bar, by which all WA music is measured, considerably. Certainly there is no comparison between what the ‘Real Deal’ Wishbone Ash is doing now and the ‘other band’. There is been new music, excellent music, published music, that has and continues to be produced by the genuine article. And for the poor shnooks who profess to know something about music by contrasting vocals, Andy Powell sings with a timbre and strength, even at his age, that MT or TT never had. So while the ‘other’ band has right to play back catalogue or any other catalogue of music, let’s get real folks, this ain’t American Idol! let the ‘Real Deal’ rock on!!!!!!

IMO Martin Turner was the real “substance” behind Wishbone Ash. The voice, brains and creative mind.

Police without Sting, Thin Lizzy without Lynott, Asia without Wetton, etc, etc? Likewise, Wishbone Ash without MT doesn’t do the trick for me.

Andy Powell is an exceptional lead guitarist but a poor vocalist and weak songwriter.

From the information that’s in the public domain it would seem that far from AP keeping the band going over the years he did a fair bit to help break it up at times. Maybe to seize control for himself? I’d never heard the story that MT quit three times – I always understood he was pushed each time.

Either way, I’ll gladly roll up for any Martin Turner’s Wishbone Ash shows (they are the best thing to happen in WA circles since the reformed original band in the late eighties), and/or a Turner-Turner-Upton axis reunited. But I’ll forever pass on Andy Powell’s Wishbone Ash’s boogie-rock bar-band sound (complete with monotone vocals and minus the strong harmonies for which the band were known).

To some, WA may be represented by a baseball cap and a silly shaped guitar. But for me there was a greater depth which only MT fronted line-ups can offer. Each to their own.

Whoever decided Andy Powell’s band should be called Wishbone Ash anyway? Did he ask the other original members of the band if he could use the name? No he didn’t. He just went and did it anyhow.

Is Ted happy? Is Steve happy? Is Martin happy? Obviously not. And that matters.

This is like the Pink Floyd story and so many other bands of old, when a minor member of a band tries out a new band (Blue Law in this case) and finds nobody is interested in it or him. He therefore risks his luck and takes a name to which he only has a 25% claim at best (20% if you include Laurie Wisefield) alongside equal name owners Martin Turner, Steve Upton and Ted Turner.

He then proceeds to exploit this band name/brand name for all its worth dragging it down to a level of a virtual tribute band. The guy may be a fantastic guitarist but he can’t sing for toffee and he can’t write a decent song either. The rubbish put out under the name of Wishbone Ash in recent years has been shameful.

The notion that he has carried the flame and kept the name alive for 40 years is untrue. The band ceased to exist when Ted Turner left for the second time. That’s when Andy tried his luck with Blue Law – failed and decided to foist a band of unknowns on the general public pretending to be Wishbone Ash. This has become a recurring theme. A better name for this band would be Andy Powell’s Roundabout / Revolving Doors / Conveyor Belt (take your pick).

He was part of a great collective that was Wishbone Ash in the 1970s and 1980s. He played great guitar and wrote perhaps three or four good songs in a decade. Compare that to the output of Martin, Ted and Laurie who wrote all the classics – which not surprisingly the Andy Powell band continue to play to this day.

Full marks to Martin Turner for telling it like it should be told. He was the man that actually wrote “Argus” in the first place. How many songs did Andy write on “Argus” then? That’s right – absolutely sweet diddly squat. Steve wrote some lyrics, Ted wrote the intro to ‘Time Was’. Andy wrote … nada, zip, zilch – a few riffs and licks … big deal … BIG REAL DEAL!!!!

Martin Turner, Ted Turner (no relation) and Steve Upton should and will reunite as Wishbone Ash – as is their right – as is their legacy. They will find the fourth member easy enough. If Mr. Powell doesn’t want to play ball then the obvious contender is Laurie Wisefield.

And so I ask you – given the choice between seeing a genuine version of the band for the first time in a decade+ playing the music they wrote, OR seeing the Andy Powell band (with a drummer not even born when the classic line-up reigned supreme) masquerading as the Real Deal (joke) playing the music of these other original guys (badly) … who would you go and see?

Can i add the names are Wishbone Ash, and Martin Turners Wishbone Ash, there is no Andy Powells Wishbone Ash.

I hope this was a drink induced outburst that could be mended, if not its just plain childish.

PS, I still hold Martin in high regard, so if he’s reading ,change the tact, this is damaging to all and good for no one. WA fans respect all the guys past/present or otherwise..

Andy Powell going out as W.A is akin to Ringo Starr going out as The Beatles

I’d rather hear Ringo Starr sing Time Was or Sometime World, than have to endure Andy Powell warble his way through them. Sure, Powell sings in reasonable tune, but where’s the warmth, passion, depth and soul in his voice. His voice only ever had comedic value to me.

The man should be allowed nowhere near a microphone. If the original four do reform, AP should just play guitar and do occasional vocal harmonies – which he does well. Please dont make us endure Bad Weather Blues or Strange Affair. Powell has one of the most unlistenable lead rock voices ever.

We all know the truth – Andy Powell has much more ability than Martin Turner….as far as being an egotistical self publicist is concerned.

Martin got pushed into the shadows for way too long. Fair play to him for reclaiming some of the glory. Without Martin and Steve discovering him in 69, Andy Powell would probably still be a Tonibell ice cream man.

Well said Martin Turner!

Martin has given Mr Powell way too much time and rope. It’s high time Andy was taken to task for the diabolical way he has exploited his “old mates” and Wishbone Ash fans.

Martin,Ted and Steve should come down on AP like a ton of bricks. They have been very patient up to now but I can see the clock ticking and the days are numbered for AP’s wa.

As for Mr Koontz’s comments. This is a prime example of the blinkered, brainwashed handful of Powellite, cultist propaganda, garbage diatribe.

Lee Van Streem,Janik and Ged are telling it like it really is.

The fact that Martin has finally said what he really feels should be an indication to the fans of Wishbone Ash music that the man has finally lost patience with AP

Martin has been stabbed in the back too many times. The thanks he got for helping save a tour for Andy was to be phoned on his birthday by Andy to be told he was not wanted back in the band. That doesn’t sound like quitting in my book. It’s sheer arrogance and ungratefulness.

Genuine fans of WA know that Martin has ,as he stated, “Never willingly left Wishbone Ash” Anyone who says differently is just ignoring the truth in preference for the re-written history.

It figures the usual suspects in MT’s minion camp would chime in….you guys are a hoot… he has you under his thumb so much…
MT is scraping by trying to squeeze the last bit of life out of his playing and voice (too many fags?), while Wishbone Ash, the band that has endured for 40 years with Andy Powell, soldiers onward and upward..

you guys all have personal vendettas against AP and WA, and you are using this forum now , since the MTWA went offline due to psychotic delerium, and you are doing what you can to direct your anger toward him and his success…..I think it boils down to pure jealousy over the success the WA has had since the mid 90s, and being on the sidelines was too much to bear for Martin…sure, Mart, play the songs all you want, just quit moaning and groaning about how you were slighted…..you QUIT, Ted quit, Steve quit, Laurie quit….I respect everyone in the the entire WA legacy, but the way this MTWA shenanigan is going with its shady promotion and backstabbing subterfuge again WA and AP is sickening..

I personally think it is a call for attention, like a baby crying in its crib: ‘feed me, feed me !! I can’t help myself, I need you to answer my beckoning

using the above logic, Uriah Heep is down to 1 origianal member, thus do they cease to exist ?
you guys are truly blinded

And why should’nt tell Andy to F… ..f ? These maniacle fans of AP are refusing to look at this as it really is. To say that Andy has kept it all going for all of these years it total garbage. What has he really done since Ted left after Strange Affair? He has hardly been what I would call prolific
He tours with a decent enough group of musicians, but they are really a club band and nothing more, 300 to 400 seat clubs and bars.
His vocals are awfull, plain and simple, somebody said in an earlier post that they consider him to be a better singer than Martin, what joke that is, his vocals grate on me.
He is not much of a song writer, the songs that he does write are pop songs with a guitar solo.
So why do people think that the band is his? He basically hijacked the name Wishbone Ash, I wonder if he even discussd it with the other former members before he snatched it?
So I do not blame Martin at all, I just wonder why he is not even more vocal about it.

Andy Powell spends years rewriting the history of Wishbone Ash and insulting the original band members by releasing shoddy unendorsed product containing their performances…and no one says a word.

Martin Turner for once tells Andy to “go away” and all hell breaks loose.

There’s something seriously wrong here.

Why can’t some people see the wood from the trees?

Fact is you’ve all been the victim of one enormous con-trick.

AP’s annual celebration is not called Ash “Con” for nothing.

If Andy Powell’s Wishbone Ash (and that’s what it is, let’s not kid ourselves otherwise) really are the “real deal”, then AP must surely be the joker in the pack. The branding is pathetic – APWA depicted as the four kings, my ass.

There were five kings in the WA story – Turner, Turner, Upton, Wisefield and, yes, Powell. The five hero figures who touched a generation of music fans with their creations and performances back in the days when WA was a bona fide international success story.

Other musicians that have come and gone since have been talented, no doubt but “real deal” – no way.

Someone ought to run AP’s “real deal” campaign past the advertising standards association.

First saw WA in 1972 at Brighton Dome and they blew me away. This ongoing rift is sad (like in families, anniversaries can bring warring factions into contact when they were happy ignoring each other previously!) – have seen Andy Powell’s version and MTWA recently. Let me tell you, that Andy’s band were incredibly friendly signing autographs etc and just being there for the fans. The music – yes Martin’s vocals are superior to Andy’s and their sense of fun at the gig I went too was evident (as an aside check out Ray Hatfield’s ‘King of the West’ CD).

Ted Turner and Steve Upton, particularly the latter, have kept a low profile for yonks and yonks – is it fact that they side with Martin in all these probs?

Andy’s WA also tour incessantly, a hard working band if ever there was one and ‘Power of Eternity’ is a brilliant CD.

Are there any bands that dont have such probs if they last as long as ‘WA’ has? Are there any 1970s ’schoolboy’ fans of WA out there who still think their music is great?

I have seen the name ’steve koontz’ before. He hangs around on you.tube waiting to criticise any videos that get uploaded of Martin Turner’s Wishbone Ash. He is also fairly typical of a narrow band of APWA fans (usually American, but not exclusively so) who never saw the original band – have never met or talked to Martin Turner (or Ted, Laurie or Steve probably) or seen the latter perform.

In short his knowledge of Wishbone Ash extends to the bogus troupe Mr. Powell has been trotting around for a decade. I actually think there is some kind of subconscious envy going on here. Because they came to the party late – or entered the book at the last chapter – they want to rubbish what went before. It’s some kind of jealousy. I hope this little spaniel is being well-paid for his over zealous policing by his lord and master!!!

Gav H – to make the fact that Bob Skeat has been Andy Powell’s loyal first-lieutenant for 11 years appear to have some importance is irrelevant. Bob is a very good player – but he is a paid sideman; as are Muddy and Joe. The current line-up of the Andy Powell band is not a democratic band – it is a one-man led ego-trip. Wishbone Ash was always a band broadly of equals – but if ever it had a leader, it was Martin Turner who stood centre-stage and did most of the singing. The band was never the same without him.

Finally, it is entirely fatuous and well short of the mark to assume that all Wishbone Ash fans support the ‘current’ band led by Mr. Powell. They don’t. What the latter has done to the name of a once great band is nothing short of disgraceful and truly split the fan base.

I have seen virtually every version of Wishbone Ash since the 1970s (didn’t see the Spam band) and I know what constitutes Ash thank you very much.

Wishbone Ash 1969-1993/5 (RIP)

Nice one Martin, you have just stuck your bloody foot in you mouth once again. You could have graciously declined the invitation instead of telling Andy to f*ck off. I wish I had half as much class as you have.

I, like many others, speak as a huge fan of Wishbone Ash music from the 70s when the band was highly successful and popular all over the world.

I know that this band’s music and sheer classiness at that time was an inspiration for many of us as well as for a lot of other musicians who site WA as a major influence.

I, like others again, have gone along to see the many different versions fronted by AP over the years and although it is nice to hear the songs again in some form it has to be said that I usually came away a bit sad and disappointed that this once great band had been reduced to playing bars and clubs in a somewhat half baked manner bearing little resemblance to the original.

Then a strange and unexpected thing happened, Martin Turner’s version of WA, which I just had to go and see, and I have to say that it actually does have that same sound and feeling from the 70s – a very pleasant surprise which rekindled my faith in the music that I was once so fond of.

Martin Turner’s outburst seems out of character but probably is a frustrated response to AP’s invite to the other original guys which appears derisory and if Martin Turner, Steve and Ted really have had a major offer to reform but want Andy’s on board, why is AP reluctant ?

Obviously there would be some thorny issues that would need to be discussed but hey chaps, you are grown men, don’t be afraid, do it for the sake of all of us, who made you what you are with our support over many decades. MT is managed by Martin Darvill who has a track record of getting bands back together, i.e.: Asia, surely he could be referee !

Finally, I like many, I suspect, feel that much of the rubbish that has issued forth over the years (both musical and verbal) has only damaged the name of WA, but a re-union would be a hugely popular move for all of us and it would be great to see this band back where they belong and I’m sure would be rewarding for everyone.

‘Throw down the Sword’ The words say it all.

As Regards the Shepherds Bush gig, I think the point that all three declined politely last year, needs to be made. I am surprised to see that the Shepherd’s Bush Gig is still being advertised. (No need to put the date – they know which one). Also that all the other three, Martin, Ted and Steve, appear to be unified in their approach.

Anon

Let’s remember that Powell approached the original members – Ted, Steve and Martin – one day, and then went PUBLIC with his invite 24 hours later.

Hardly enough time for the guys to even consider the invitation, never mind put all practicalities into place.

Powell’s game is OBVIOUS.

BLATANTLY bloody OBVIOUS.

Let’s invite the originals, then piss them off by making the invite public before they even have time to properly consider or discuss. They’re bound to refuse, then I can go on record saying “I offered the guys a reunion but they declined”.

He set his “40th Anniversary” concert up for May 2009 – four months before the anniversary – as an act of “one-upmanship”, to trump the annivesary plans that had been discussed between the original four for the past year.

What a slimeball stunt to pull. Where’s the dignity in the man?

Martin Turner has every right to be disgruntled

The album ‘Argus’ was and is (always will be) a Classic – and ranks alongside the finest albums of that era (Close To The Edge – Yes. Zep 4. P.Floyd – Dark Side of the Moon and so on) – And for the band members to be so egotistic and selfish – when they should be mature minded and good hearted simply shows that they no longer have what it takes to re-produce such Excellent music….time they all hung up their guitars/drums and ego’s – rather than let their pettiness and greed besmirch what is/was a watershed in rock music.
All four of them really are F.U.B.B.

A sad Wishbone Ash Muic fan

Does Martin really need Andy?

Anyone who’s had the pleasure of seeing Martin’s classic version of Wishbone Ash may wonder that.

Martin’s band is just superb.

recently on ‘You Tube’ there have been posts stating that Andy Powell wrote most of Argus!!! Not only that but unbelievably they claim that Andy had to show Martin bass lines to play!!!! LIARS who are close to if not Mr Powell himself are on there now spewing this sort of garbage!!!

The moniker mrmind001 resembles a moniker that was used by,or at least sanctioned by, Andy Powell when trying to shut Martin Turner’s website down.

If it really is AP then the whole fan base of Wishbone Ash fans ought to condemn the liars.

Every Wishbone Ash fan knows that Martin Turner was the main writer of Argus.

you guys are a riot…….MT and his manager have you all brainwashed….
I have been a fan of this band in all incarnations since 1976 ( i was 11 and fully comprehended what I was listening to)…so you blowhards like JANIK above et al. who are trying to disrespect me have no leg to stand on…and the interview that just finished on Planet Rock is a farce: an arrogant, selfish, condescending jerk of a bass player who thru gas on the fire even more…” the others were basically lazy?,,,” what a joke….ask any engineer or producer who has worked with MT and see if they can tell you who the lazy and incompetent player is…
he is a sham, patronizing, and manipulative…..Wishbone Ash and Andy Powell continue to take the high road past MT drivel and babyish outburst, out of jealousy…
..never ending Argus tour…..yeah, 3 or 4 nights a month, same 10 or 15 ‘fans’ at each venue, so 20-30 gigs a year must really wear on MT and his energy: i.e. LAZY.

Hi Guys,

Some interesting and quite obviously polarised views above. I’ve been a WA fan since I first heard the eponymous first album back in 1970, and kept supporting and buying albums through to Wishbone 4. After that I kind of drifted away from them until I went to see them in 1980 touring ‘Just Testing’, then of course MT left (was left?)and I drifted away again.

A couple of years ago I decided my old musicassettes and or vinyl needed replacing and bought Argus for the third time and was hooked all over again. I then found out the current situation re WA and MT’sWA, and bemoaned the fact that there was such obvious bad blood (for whatever reason) between the two camps. The last time I saw WA was, as previously mentioned, in 1980, when I went with my girlfriend, later my wife, to the gig at Bradford St. George’s Hall. Tomorrow I’m going to see Martin Turner with my 27 year old son and 24 year old daughter when they play at the Arches, Glasgow, (thank you CR for informing the tour dates!) and hope and trust to be blown away by the Argus tour.

Maybe I’ll get to see Andy Powell’s version one day and I’ll be able to compare, but in the meantime, as there are now 2 WA’s touring, let’s give them both our support, twice as much chance to see some of our favourite music!

Steve Koontz, Janik and et al. are not trying to disrespect you, they are showing you the respect that your rants truly deserve, i.e. none. Grow up boy!

Roll on Glasgow!

Further to yesterday’s post, I saw MTWA at the Arches in Glasgow last night and saw a truly great show. Bumped into Martin before I went in and had a quick word, no airs and graces with him, a really pleasant feller, also after the gig had another quick word, congratulating him for a great set.

In the interests of poularising the music I took my two adult kids with me and they were also very impressed, maybe they won’t be rushing out anytime soon to buy any WA CD’s, but at least they won’t mock when Dad puts his music on!

As previous posters have mentioned, it would be great if they could bury the hatchet, but I can’t see it happening any time soon.

Has Mr Kootnz met Martin Turner, has he seen him play?
Perhaps not?
Perhaps the testimony of the likes of people like Lngcjohnboy,
who have met him, and seen him play, has greater validity?

I have seen both bands and spoken with both leaders and I prefer Mr Turner’ band by a long shot – my preference, but,
I respect that others have different tastes.

I think that it is great that there are two versions.

Would be nice if three or even four of the originals could get together on mutually agreed terms somtime soon.

yeah, I check out the You tube stuff….for lots of bands……and I cringe when I see the vast majority of MTWA stuff…..out of tune/downtuned guitars, nonexistent harmonies, the undeniable professional “i cant reach the high notes, so I’ll sling my head back from the microphone so noone will notice my voice crack!” move…. Heck the newest guitarist sounds like he has a great voice– let him take the lead —uh DEJA VU ??

give up the ploy….all those videos there and on the main site have constant disclaimers about the inferiority of the sound….and IMO it aint from the recording devices… I would be ashamed and embarrassed to pass some of those performance off as “classic”…… the sounds and videos are that bad to hide the stomach churning vocals, etc.

why does it go on….

Wishbone Ash were th first band I ever saw live.Feb12th 1972.
Would really like to see the originals back together. At the moment it’s not really Wishbone Ash more Wishbone Ish

I saw the Martin Turner version of Wishbone Ash last week at The Flowerpot in Derby, and his singing was so bad, me and my friends had to walk out after the fourth song, it was too much. When at night, laying in bed and you hear the cats or foxes calling to each other… Well that noise is more plesant.
What a dissapointment though and a waste of £12 a ticket x 3. If you’re thinking of seeing the Martin Turner’s Wishbone Ash anytime soon, don’t bother unless you wear some expensive industrial ear protectors from SCREWFIX to block out that singing…If you can call it that. Go see the other one instead as they are alot more professional.

this is all very sad they are both good bands dont forget martin turner was fired infavour of johnwetton why cant they just get together one last time for the 40th anniversarygig it is the fans who are having to suffer let andy play the new stuff and martin the older rockier stuff both revamped versions of argusare brilliant ps iam58 yrs old been a fan since 1970

I guess three original members plus Laurie Wiesfield would do for me.

Just got “Argus through the looking glass”. After listening closely, i ask myself: What does Martin Turner try to prove by re-recording a classic album with more or less exactly the same sound as the original band did it way back then? Okay, that’s fine for me, MTWA have at least proved, that this is possible. And its sounds good, has the “spirit” …. and surely is worth listening to especially for WA-Fans, who loved the original band. But as long as Turner doesn’t record new material, this is just a (very good) tribute band.
I have never been disappointed by new material released by Wishbone Ash (Andy Powell), I saw them play live year after year to 400-800 people in a club just around the corner in my hometown (Karlsruhe, Germany) – and the performance was sometimes good, sometimes brilliant. The more new material played, the better. Nevertheless I’m going to see Martins band in May….

Clarification Statement from Martin Turner

Last night, the reputable and acclaimed classic rock DJ Nicky Horne interviewed Andy Powell on Planet Rock radio. With the 40th anniversary of the formation of Wishbone Ash approaching, the conversation naturally turned to the possibility of the original members of the band regrouping to celebrate this milestone. Nicky Horne offered to act as an “honest broker” to enable the differences between the original members to be resolved. Any initiative that could result in the four of us getting together – even just one last time – to make music together has to be applauded. Management acting for Steve Upton, Ted Turner and myself immediately accepted Nicky’s offer. An e-mail was sent to Nicky and copied to Andy suggesting that any reasonable person would acknowledge that Andy’s litigious activities in the past, and those in the present, are not conducive to fair negotiations and should be ceased before a round table meeting.

Today Andy Powell has posted a message on his site, where he has chosen to distort the goodwill and put a negative spin on the content of communications between my management and Nicky Horne. I would much prefer that the differences between the core members remain private, but once again Andy has chosen to go public, which we regret.

Right now there appears to be a great deal of enthusiasm for all things Wishbone Ash and a general positive vibe from both the public and the media. Respected, high profile figures such as Nicky Horne have nothing personally to gain through making such offers. They do it out of sheer passion for the music. We can all see from Andy’s comments today on his website that he once again has thrown the rattle out of the pram. Given Andy’s present mindset, it would seem he has shot himself in the foot here. And when Andy Powell shoots himself in the foot, he also shoots Wishbone Ash and its fans in the foot. Ultimately rock ‘n’ roll is built on an edge of controversy and without that edge it becomes safe and sterile, but this is childish. I am often confronted with questions concerning contentious matters, but I tend to field them with a smile on my face and, on occasion, an injection of tongue-in-cheek humour (sometimes misinterpreted, admittedly!).

With so much appetite for the public activity of the various Wishbone associated musicians, I continue to be somewhat perplexed as to why Andy feels the need continually to put a negative spin on events, re-writing history and presenting gross inaccuracies and mistruths – as was evident several times during his Planet Rock interview and his comments today. As stated, I personally prefer to keep behind the scenes matters out of the public arena. However, so long as inaccurate information and negative spin concerning my conduct and activity is published and broadcast elsewhere, I have no option but to set the record straight from my perspective. No doubt some of the commentators who choose to act as self-appointed judge, jury and executioner in the kangaroo court that certain fan forums masquerade as from time to time, have no real idea as to the true facts or the underlying issues that have been the cause of conflict between Andy Powell and his former colleagues in Wishbone Ash. Let me elaborate…

Firstly, the name – yes, that old chestnut! To clarify, I have chosen to perform as Martin Turner’s Wishbone Ash under the legal principle of “residual rights”. As co-owner and co-founder of the brand, I have every legal privilege to use Wishbone Ash with or without a prefix. This right extends to all core members of the band. I am comfortable with the prefix, as it describes exactly what is in the tin. Andy Powell continues to perform as Wishbone Ash, as he is entitled so to do if he wishes, though he is drawing on the reputation and goodwill of all core and founder members and creating a confusion which would not be there if he accurately described himself as Andy Powell’s Wishbone Ash. This is a moral decision for Mr Powell to make. His activity post-1994 cannot truly be considered a ‘continuation’ of previous Wishbone Ash activity. The spin from Mr. Powell’s publicity machine gives the impression of an ‘uninterrupted history’ whereas the reality is that following the eventual disintegration of the reformed original line-up, Andy (aware that there was, and I quote his words, “an existing fanbase to exploit”) constructed a new band from scratch that had absolutely nothing in common with the original entity in terms of its personnel, management, business structure, group democracy, equity division or moral ethics. The only connection (aside from Andy’s obvious guitar talent) has been its performance of songs originally written and recorded by the core members.

I should also state that – contrary to what was claimed by Andy during his Planet Rock interview – I did NOT initially agree to call my band “Martin Turner’s Wishbone” and never have. The band was called Martin Turner’s Wishbone Ash from DAY ONE, as the news archives on this very site documents. We did make a brief trial non legally-binding “gentleman’s agreement” with Andy at one stage where we agreed to appear as Wishbone featuring Martin Turner and, by return, he agreed to certain terms that included, amongst other things, him agreeing not to discuss publicly the specifics of the agreement (a clause he contravened the very next day after the agreement had been signed by discussing the deal at Ash-Con) and he was required to add a clear and distinct link to my website on his site. Several months on, it was clear that we had been somewhat tricked into making this “gentleman’s agreement” and that he had no intentions of adhering to his part of the bargain. The agreement simply didn’t work and we reverted to our original chosen name on a business as usual basis.

And then there is the issue of the ‘registered trademark’ that Andy delights in parading around these days (personally I think that clumsy looking ® symbol demeans the brand and spoils the aesthetic beauty of the classic Wishbone Ash logo, and I’m not alone in this opinion!).

Andy Powell registered the name Wishbone Ash in 1998 as a trademark for his use without the required consent of the other original owners – in fact, without even informing us. The registration only came to light in 2004 during the legal action Andy launched in an (unsuccessful) attempt to shut down my website. Andy’s registration prevents third parties from using the name, but does not prevent use by any core member who possesses residual rights. The other three original members retain rights to the name. The owners of the name Wishbone Ash are therefore Andrew Powell, Steven Upton, David Turner and Martin Turner. We have no objection to Laurie Wisefield registering his interest, and we also state publicly that we do not seek to deny his rights in any case. In many band’s cases, one man may own the name if he has bought the shares of the other members. In the case of Wishbone Ash, this simply did not happen – FACT! Andy has never paid a penny for our shares – it is like co-owning a house with three brothers, allowing one brother to remain in the house rent free, and then finding out he is claiming he owns the house by virtue of his continued presence.

None of the core members of the band – Steve Upton, Ted Turner, Andy Powell, Martin Turner and Laurie Wisefield – ever sold or otherwise forfeited their rights to the name Wishbone Ash. I am often asked why I chose not to put my share up for sale and I respond that Wishbone Ash is my life – I’ve never wanted to do anything else and, contrary to what continues to be reported elsewhere, I’ve never voluntarily left the band. To set the record straight, in 1980 I was effectively ‘edged out’ by being put in an untenable situation when the band felt changes were vital; in 1991 I was told by Andy (on my birthday!) that my services were no longer required; and in 1995/96 I appeared with Andy on a session basis and was quite prepared to continue, but was subsequently excluded from further activity and Andy choose to continue with sidemen). I am a reasonable man and not one to hold grudges – as has been proven by my continual attempts to work with Andy through the years, with me often compiling albums of re-mastered or archive WA material to coincide with his tours or appearing with his bands at short notice to save him from cancelling shows. I have always remained willing to be involved in Wishbone Ash activity. It saddens me that we have to defend ourselves against Andy’s current legal action by drawing attention to the fact that his 1998 registration of the trademark was made in “bad faith”, according to our counsel. What a ridiculous state of affairs. Once again Andy’s self pity, bitterness and anger is getting in the way of common sense.

And so to reunions….

As original members of the band, Steve Upton, Ted Turner and myself are in receipt of a significant offer from the UK’s second biggest music promoter to regroup for a series of major venue concerts during 2010 on the basis that the line-up would include at least three of the original members. We are all, in principal, receptive to the idea and are presently reviewing the feasibility of such a project. It should be added that this offer was presented to us – and in turn to Andy – long before Andy announced his 40th anniversary concert in London. Any shows performed would be in the context of the originals performing together for the full duration of the evening – not as ’special guests’ alongside Andy’s band, or mine for that matter, which would be something of a compromise for both the musicians and the fans. Naturally any reunion shows will be appropriately branded and need not be a threat to either of the existing bands presently performing Wishbone Ash music. In fact the existing bands would only benefit from the extra publicity a high profile reunion would generate. It is blatantly obvious that Andy’s London show was hastily arranged and announced as a deliberate ploy to “trump” the reunion plans already being discussed and to get it on record that we – the original members – had turned down a reunion. Andy was asked about his invitation to the original members during the Planet Rock interview and Nicky Horne enquired as to whether Andy felt he had given us reasonable notice of the invitation before going public. Andy replied to the affirmative. It has already been documented that, in actual fact, Andy gave us just 24 hours notice before going public. I will leave people to make their own minds up as to whether they feel this “reasonable”, taking into account the logistics involved in producing a show of any description, never mind one involving four individuals who have not been in the same room at any one time since July 1990…

The original members of Wishbone Ash remain open to sitting down with Andy and discussing any issues that may be on our minds, or his for that matter. For example, there are certain outstanding matters regarding apparent grey areas in some of Andy’s business dealings that need to be addressed properly. In particular, various misrepresentations concerning the licensing of past Wishbone Ash material (to which the core members possess equal ownership) dating back over a number of years. To date Andy has been unwilling to respond to our not unreasonable request for clarification regarding various seemingly dubious deals. Neither his “bad faith” trademark registration or him being the sole original member in the band that presently performs as Wishbone Ash gives him any legal or moral license whatsoever to sign away rights to our collective material or conduct business deals on our behalf without our consent, which has been the case on several occasions – in fact, there is a whole catalogue of releases out there featuring material performed by the original members (and therefore collectively owned by the original members), which has been released without our required consent. Andy may well feel he has the right to “exploit” the existing fanbase but he certainly has no right to exploit or otherwise abuse the original band members. We retain the right to exercise control over all co-owned material, on both artistic and business levels and Mr. Powell has denied us this right on several occasions. His moral fibre therefore has to be seriously questioned. The rich body of work we created together back in the days of group democracy and equity membership is not only Andy Powell’s lifeblood, but also the lifeblood of the other original members and their families. Does the housekeeper have the right to sell the family silver?

We remain willing to talk with Andy and our management has been trying to facilitate this for some time now. Andy implied on Planet Rock and has stated elsewhere that our management has denied him direct access to the original members. This is nonsense, untrue and another gross distortion of the facts. All that has been asked is that Andy remove any legal threats in order to allow talks to proceed on an even playing field. We are requesting nothing more than to be treated with the degree of respect, honesty, good faith and fair play that we as founder members of Wishbone Ash deserve. For the four of us to address some of the above matters by talking face to face around a table like grown men strikes me as no big deal, and sometimes “really sorry about that mate” can make quite a difference, so what is the problem? Fear of….? Using the old adage that there is nothing to fear except fear itself, I believe the problems can be straightened out and the way cleared for a re-union of the original band in its entirety. Now that really would be a real deal for all concerned, would it not? Especially as an acknowledgment and “thank you” to all the fans who all helped to make the band happen in the first place. Our preferred route would always be negotiation and mediation as opposed to litigation. The four of us have more uniting us than dividing, we just need to recapture a totally dignified spirit of harmony, mutual respect and co-operation – the very strengths that helped Wishbone Ash achieve its international success in the early days.

I hope the presentation of the above facts helps people to see the situation a little clearer and give a little insight into the reasons why relationships between the original members and Andy Powell have broken down over the years. A small minority of fans have, of late, been passing judgement on matters they have no personal or professional qualification to comment on, with some of the material published being nothing short of libellous. This goes totally against the grain when juxtaposed with the unanimous support and respect I have been shown at the shows we have played. These really are behind the scenes matters for the original members and their appointed representatives to deal with – privately if possible.

Even if a reunion isn’t possible, it would still make sense for us to go down the pub as mates.

Thanks for listening,

Martin Turner

27 February 2009 |

I don’t know who Steve Koontz is, or what is his connection with WA, but he seems to live in an alternate universe from ordinary fans like me who just listen to the music. I just purchased and played (3 times through) the MTWA recreation of Argus, and it is the best music I have heard published by WA since the original.

Also, it is obvious that Martin Turner had a huge musical influence on the original WA band, producing music of a much higher quality than later incarnations assembled by Andy Powell. Too bad that Andy seems determined to obstruct any real progress towards a reunion. This conclusion is based on what I have read online — I have no inside knowledge.

The commenter who remarked that Andy Powell claiming to be WA is like Ringo Starr claiming to be The Beatles hit the nail on the head. After listening to the MTWA Argus album, Martin has far more right, musically, to claim the name, because his band’s music is worthy of it.

Ignore Steve Koontz. He goes onto YouTube and posts his petty messages – worried, like i would be if I were him/Andy Powell, that MTWA are being regarded as the ‘real deal’ – the London 100 Club gig was simply amazing.

Martin Turner – his band play the classics, he sings his songs, he plays the Thunderbird bass, there are twin guitars – it’s just great. Like the Wishbone of the 70s again.

its pretty obvious that martin and andy have issues,its sad.i saw the original band many times in the seventies and they were fantastic. stop bickering life is to short,if the original floyd can get back together so can wishbone,who cares who can sing better than the other ,do it before its to late!

I saw Andy Powell’s Wishbone Ash on Friday in Sheffield, I thoroughly enjoyed it and was very impressed with, as always Andy technical prowess on the guitar – it is clearly Andy’s band. I also saw Martin Turners Wishbone Ash in Derby in March, which I enjoyed immensely – especially performing Argus album in full.
I think Martin is a decent, thoroughly nice guy, who was very warm and had a great rapport with the audience in Derby. Andy was a little more distant and perhaps, did not quite have the same rapport with the audience as Martin – which is not meant as a critique, it is just the way it is!
I appreciate there is much legal debate, history and discussion about the name of Wishbone Ash etc etc, however, which is really a matter for Martin and Andy teams to sort, I would love them to put this aside, (if they can) and re-unite for the 40th aniversay (I missed them when they last re-united in the late eighties).
I think Martin’s statement above ,is excellent and he talks a lot of sense and it appears obvious to me that he and the other original members are very open to future discussion of a possible re-union – I hope they can – that is all Wishbone fans can hope for!!!!
I think Martin’s statement just shows how open, likeable and reasonable he is !!!!
I will continue to follow both bands, because they are both play Wishbone Ash music – simple as that really.
I hope we dont forget Laurie Wisefield in any possible re-union, who also contributed to Ash for 11 years too – fantastic guitar player!!
I hope Martin and Andy can come to Derby or near by, very soon again!!!!! I remember when they used to sell out at big venues, would’nt be great if they could do this again as Wishbone Ash Re-united!!!!!

Have all Ash´s albums. Love the band. If I should pick a fav. of mine – it would be Marin, Ted and Laurie. The 3 who wrote some of Ash´s best songs.

Martin

You have shown yourself to be an honourable man of considerable integrity.
Top man, long may you share your music, warmth and good humour with us all.

J

I think that either version of the band re-doing “Argus” was a stupid idea. I haven’t heard the Martin Turner version, so I can’t comment on them, but I have liked the new albums Powell’s version has done. So why not just continue to do new music? Doing songs from “Argus” live is one thing, like a band would do from any album, but to re-record the album is just plain silly.

Sad, sad, Martin Turner! What a despicable quote in the media, shame on you! I have seen AP’s band live dozens and dozens of times, and have always had the chance to meet the band and converse with some true gentlemen. You, on the other hand, appear to hang your hat on negativity and black clouds, making your whole despicable life about minutia rather than music. If you are so talented after 40 years of resting on your rump, why don’t you produce something worthwhile instead of spending all your time bashing people who have actually EARNED a living playing music? Ahhh, your true colors have shown through this time. I hope KARMA comes back and bites you in the arse.

Andy and Martin prob lap up all the attention they get, it wudnt surprise me if it was all jst a ‘con-fight’ and theyre keeping the action going, while collecting the revenue from 2 bands. ( haha ?) yes Andy’s vox are goin down the drain but he tries to even it up with good musicians, I for one am sorry, I have heard Andy did throw Martin out of the band more than once, why? After all the infighting, why doesn;t Andy ask the other originals to appear with him on their farewell gig as equals? surely the occasion deserves parity between these 4 guys?

Wishbone Ash – In my mind – Is Martin Turner, Lauri Wisfield, Ted Turner, Andy Powel and Steve Upton.
I have been a very huge fan of WA – FOR ME i WOULD BE HAPPY IF WA” Would come togeter as a union – Only time will tell….