Bon Jovi: Should We Care? Emphatically Not!
The heated Classic Rock website debate continues.
Yesterday we asked the all-important question (or, alternatively, the not-important-in-the-slightest question): Bon Jovi – should we care?
Malcolm Dome reckons we should. In case you missed it, you can read Malc’s caring, sharing BJ opinion piece here.
Now Dave Ling presents his counter view. To wit: we most definitely shouldn’t.
Take it away, Dave!
Firstly, allow me to lay my cards on the table. I used to be a huge fan of Bon Jovi. I was among the first British followers to pick up on the band’s self-titled debut in 1984, catching them several times supporting Kiss.
For their follow up, 7800° Fahrenheit, my friends and I travelled around the country sleeping in the back of a van to experience multiple British shows. I was present at the famous Dominion Theatre gig in London (23.5.85) during which the power went off and Jon Bon Jovi kept the crowd – and his mother, in the royal box – entertained as the problem was fixed. JBJ saves the day… and he loves his mum – great stuff.
Nobody could deny the fact that Slippery When Wet (1986) and New Jersey (’88) remain among the classiest and enduring commercial rock albums ever made.
For myself and, I suspect, thousands like me, there were two things that caused things to go horribly wrong. In the first instance, JBJ cut his hair and lost the plot with Keep The Faith – its credibility-chasing title cut, at least.
Then Jon showed his true colours in a bust-up with Skid Row, the fellow New Jersey-ites that he and Richie Sambora had discovered and turned into stars by signing them to their Underground Music Company. When a disagreement over the spoils from the Skids’ album sales spilled over into a fistfight between JBJ and Sebastian Bach, the latter seemed to sum up his rival’s character by stating that too much of Jon’s time was spent “worrying how to how to turn a $69 million fortune into $71 million”.
The increasingly bland records that Bon Jovi would go on to make suggested that Bach’s assessment was right on the money. These Days [1995] was horrid. 2000’s Crush? Well, apart from the single It’s My Life (co-penned with Britney Speaks hitmaker Max Martin), the thing should darned well have been crushed.
Back in 1990, JBJ tried his hand at the solo market. Even with the help of Jeff Beck and Elton John, the resulting Blaze Of Glory was a prize turkey. Guitarist Richie Sambora, meanwhile, showed Jon up badly with the superior quality of his own record, Stranger In This Town, the following year. For the record, it has also been alleged that Sambora, unlike Bon Jovi, returned his share of the Skid Row money to the group.
JBJ has also tried his hand at acting – let’s just say it was a bad move.
In recent years, the credibility of Bon Jovi (the band) has taken one helluva pounding. 2002’s Bounce was a transparent and dismally doomed attempt to tap back into the group’s signature sound. Have A Nice Day (2005) had one good song – its title cut. Then the band ‘went country’ with Lost Highway in 2007. Pass the sickbag, pur-lease.
Now short-haired and lost in the champagne and stock exchange lifestyle that the band initially mocked – in 1985, they told Kerrang!: “We’re not 40-year-old guys with toupées that pretend believe in the kids, driving around in Ferraris and living in mansions. We know what it’s like to touch the kids in the first row” – JBJ appears to see himself as a celebrity-cum-political campaigner with an occasional sideline in music.
I’ve yet to hear the band’s new album, The Circle, but my old mate Malcolm Dome’s assertion that “it isn’t all that bad” damns it with such faint praise, I simply cannot rid myself of the mental image of JBJ counting the Zeros it will bring him.
After the final indignity of appearing on The X Factor – and being upstaged by JLS, of all people, who appeared with a bigger and better stage production later on in the same show – Bon Jovi are charging anything from £45 (for places at the back of the hall), to £200 (for floor-level seating) to an outrageous £1,275 (for those with a decent view of Jon Bon Jovi’s nasal hair) for tickets to see them during a residency – not an actual tour – at London’s O2 Arena. And despite all the moans ‘n’ groans in the newspapers, the added dates suggest that people are actually paying those prices… unbelievable.
In conclusion any band that elects to call their boxed set 100,000,000 Bon Jovi Fans Can’t Be Wrong can only be accused of unbearable smugness. Also, if the mathematics are correct, it’s a fairly safe bet that quite a few of those they refer to must be hearing impaired…
– Dave Ling
was looking forward to this, the other side of the argument but its quite a poorly written article.
Shame.
Bon Jovi have have simply become the soundtrack to the lives of their audience – but not in a good way. When their audience were hair sprayin, fist pumpin kids, so were Bon Jovi. But now Tommy and Gina have grown up and the band have moved with them and are reflecting this by replacing the soundtrack of rebellion and young love the musak to dinner parties and erectille dysfunction .
Tommy may have used to work on the docks, but he is in marketing these days, whilst that young hot waitress Gina is now a bitching fat arsed middle aged housewife with a bottle of Lambrini in one hand and a Michael Buble CD in the other. Credit to JBJ for knowing his market, but is he relevant to anyone that wouldn’t file Michael Bolton under ‘rock’? Not on your (or my) life.
These Days is Bon Jovi’s best album by a country mile. What Bon Jovi did was intelligent. They moved with the times, changing their sound. It helped them survive while so many of the other bands of their generation ceased to be. It’s not the 80’s anymore – dael with it!
Regarding your comments on Jon being all about money – 1. it’s a music BUISNESS. 2. So many ‘rock’ bands are all about the money – KISS, GnR, Queen to name just a few…what about the crap dinosaurs that are the Who? How long are they going to flog their out of date pap in exchange for a few Yankie Dollars?
You are a twonk! You arguement was poor. 1 – 0 to team ‘we should care’ (and it was an own goal by you!)
So Dave Ling hasn’t liked Bon Jovi since 1990, following the ill fated and unfair Skid Row deal, (would Skid Row have made their 2 good albums with out with JBJ’s help – who knows) and a rather forced film soundtrack album by JBJ.
Dave hasn’t listened to the Circle!
What a well balanced piece of journalism on how relevant the worlds biggest rock band are to rock in 2009!??!
Given that my hatred of Bon Jovi and Robbie Williams pretty much caused my divorce and subseqent financial meltdown, i quite enjoyed this article!
I should add that i own Richie Sambora’s albums and think they’re great, it’s just that twat in the middle who gets on my tits !!
Biggest Rock Band of 2009???? Do you not have to actually BE a rock band to be considered in that bracket. I have EVERY album in my collection, my wife likes ‘em so I buy ‘em and we both listen to ‘em…Bon Jovi are not by any stretch a rock band anymore…and for people to try and justify the money making machine by comparing them to Kiss and GnR is as pathetic as both of those bands now are….Jon BJ has turned into a complete twat, pure and simple, proof??? ‘Work For The Working Man’ on the new album….for someone who’s charging over £1000 for some tickets??? Unbelievable….btw, from someone who’s listened to it several times, the new album, like the last few, almost total crap….if that’s rock music, well, you need to get out more…..think i’ll stick to BLS
Firstly I thought the argument wasn’t weather ‘The Circle’ was any good but weather Bon Jovi should be in Classic Rock. The Answer is an emphatic NO!
Firstly it may be a business, however the likes of Pearl Jam and Green day seem to be able to make a decent living without charging extortionate prices for ‘Gold Circle’ tickets. I recently saw Pearl Jam at the O2, and those who got there earliest with standing tickets were the ones who got to the front, not those with the fattest wallets!
Finally if Bon Jovi is happy to whore himself on X Factor, GMTV etc then I am pretty sure he doesn’t need Classic Rock, and like wise with so many great rock bands out there Classic Rock definitely doesn’t need Bon Jovi!
Bon Jovi’s last good album was These Days in 1995, but we have reason to care about them. Their last European Tour was a revelation, sadly running out steam by the time they hit the UK. They could prove themselves yet.
I definitely disagree with the ’90s hate in this article. These Days is by far their best album, Keep The Faith is very good, and a lot of the b-sides, demos and new songs from the greatest hits from this era were excellent. Richie Sambora gave us two great solo albums and JBJ a few decent tunes from each of his. A great period for a band who’s produced little of worth since.
I cannot agree with Ling more and he has mirrored what I said yesterday.
JBJ is not Springsteen. His lyrics are bubblegum stuff and now he tries to write about world problems and charges what he does for the dump called o2.
Sambora is a good guitarist but has not stretched himself for years churning out the same old solo.
It’s time they join Buble onstage and stop trying to be rockers.
Great debate I think he needs to read this and take notice.
Will he , will he fuck
I think Daves argument was a little bit unconvincing. I totally disagree that the song Keep the Faith was crap. I do agree though that they have been under par since New Jersey although they have brought out a few decent numbers and it hasnt all been crap.
In conclusion we should still like these guys because of their great early stuff but I dont think they are relevant now because its more pop than rock.
Biggest Rock band??? Shum mishtook shirley?? Biggest cabaret act these days. How Sambora continues to be willing to be part of this sham is beyond me. Made my mind up after the show for opening the refurbed dome that Id never waste my money on another show or album.
Who needs Bon Jovi when there’s Gotthard – great songs, great hooks and they still know how to rock!
i have no respect for Dave Lings opinion , anyone who reviewed Appetite For Destruction (back in 87) and slated it! , saying it would never do anything …..doesnt deserve to have a opinion on any rock band !! lol
These Days album = horrid? That comment and also the comment about Jon cutting his hair lost all credibility I had for this article. And you havent even listend to the new album yet? ‘Pur-lease’.
I agree that Jon seems to be more focused on the money side of things and that the band’s music has become less “rock” over the years, but it’s their way of adapting to new music styles. If the band released a Slippery When Wet II or New Jersey II, we’d all be here abusing them for releasing the same old stuff year after year. There are more filler tracks on the post 2000 albums I agree, but there are still plenty of rocking gems found on each of them as well.
Bon Jovi are still going strong and have been since 1986. It’s much more than you can say about other bands such as Kiss, GnR, Leppard (my 2nd fav band) and Crue. In fact, Jovi’s the new album The Circle has gone to #1 just this week on the American Charts.
Next time Classic Rock does something like this, I think they need to find someone who actually has a decent basis behind their arguement.
BOSTON SONGWRITER FILES APPEAL IN LAWSUIT AGAINST RED SOX, MLB, TBS, BON JOVI, et al.
Bart Steele, a songwriter living in Chelsea, MA, has filed an appeal in his lawsuit against Turner Broadcasting, Major League Baseball, The Boston Red Sox, the rock band Bon Jovi, and other defendants. The case is Steele v. Turner Broadcasting et al, case #08-11727, and is pending in federal court in Boston. Steele argues that his song and an MLB/TBS commercial, which he believes was created using his work as a “temp track,” are similar enough to support his claim that the commercial infringes upon his copyright.
“Basically, the District Court believed the defendants’ argument that this was all a bunch of coincidences,” Steele says. “But it wasn’t. It was copyright infringement, pure and simple. In 2004, I wrote my Boston Red Sox-based country baseball anthem entitled ‘Man I Really Love This Team.’
“I emailed my song and also mailed the song with lyric sheets to the Red Sox and Major League Baseball several times, including in October 2004, June 2005, and June 2006. I also told them I had another version called ‘Man I Really Love This Town’ that could be used for any team in any town. To this day, neither the Red Sox nor Major League Baseball has denied receiving my letters, song, and lyric sheets. I never heard back from them.
“Three years later, MLB’s “I Love This Town” commercial aired on TBS, with Bon Jovi providing the audio. And I started getting phone calls asking me when I had sold my song. The answer was – and is – never.
“I was never asked for permission to use my work, much less paid or even given credit for it. Defendants admit, in Court documents, receiving my song in October 2004. Defendants have not denied receiving my letters informing them I had created a derivative work, which replaced “team” with “town.”
“Defendants admit “access,” which is a big part of any copyright claim. It is hard to believe TBS and MLB when they say their commercial’s similarities to my song were all a series of unbelievable ‘coincidences.’
Steele elaborates, “A close analysis of the MLB/TBS commercial proves that it, and the Bon Jovi audio, was derived from my work,” says Steele. “They left a pretty blatant trail of evidence behind,”
“There are just too many places where the visuals match up exactly with my lyrics to be coincidence. For example, at the exact time I am singing “Yawkey Way,” the video shows a Yawkey Way street sign, and Bon Jovi is singing “this street.” Another obvious example, at the exact time I sing “Tigers,” the video shows a Detroit Tigers player.”
“As for the lyrics, at the end of my song’s bridge I sing “come on and let ‘em know say here we go;” the Bon Jovi audio’s bridge ends “come on now here we go again.” Compare my song to the MLB commercial and see if you can find all the other ‘coincidences.’
“In fact, over 50% of the commercial’s lyrics are identical to, or paraphrased from my song, according to a number of professional musicians and video experts.
“96% of the commercial’s frame-cut edits (149 of 155 video sequences) are in perfect synchronization with my song’s tempo, beat, and measure. And the commercial and my song are exactly the same length, both fading out at 2:38.
Steele says the Court failed to properly consider his experts’ statements, and that is a major reason why he is appealing.
“I registered 3 titles as both writer & publisher with the American Society of Composers, Authors, and Publishers (ASCAP): 1) ‘Man I Really Love This Team’ 2) ‘Man I Really Love This Town’ and 3) ‘Man I Love This Team,’ and this can easily be confirmed at http://www.ascap.com by title search.
“Everyone tells me that this kind of thing happens all the time in the music business even though it’s illegal. The big corporations think musicians will just give up if they have to face a big law firm hired to wear them out. But I’m not giving up.
“When ASCAP saw my evidence, their exact words to me were: “We find it very hard to believe this was independent creation on their (Bon Jovi’s) part with the whole baseball and video thing.”
“ASCAP subsequently opened a “Discrepancy” case file and requested statements from me and from Bon Jovi. In fact, an ASCAP title search for “I Love This Town” returns only an ASCAP request to call the “Clearance Line” with respect to the “Discrepancy” on that title code (392590937). I replied immediately to ASCAP’s request.
“Bon Jovi never replied to ASCAP’s request.
“ASCAP eventually froze all royalties on Bon Jovi’s audio, “I Love This Town,” from the MLB/TBS commercial.
“Amazingly, Bon Jovi never questioned or challenged ASCAP’s royalty freeze. Actually, since MLBAM (MLB’s non-baseball media/marketing arm) – and not Bon Jovi – owns the copyright to the TBS/MLB commercial, including the audio, maybe it’s not that amazing.”
Steele concludes, “Bon Jovi is a major client of MLBAM and has been for years. In fact, Bon Jovi, TBS, and MLB teamed up yet again just this fall to promote baseball on TBS. Please check for yourself, this is all public record.”
To view and listen to the MLB commercial with Steele’s song, go to http://www.myspace.com/chelseacitycouncil
To view and listen to the MLB commercial with the Bon Jovi audio, go tohttp://mlb.mlb.com/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20070827&content_id=2173003&vkey=pr_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb
http://www.sleazeroxx.com/news09/1116bon.shtml
Bon Jovi? It’s rock music for people who don’t really like rock music.
Going to have to agree with you there Steve. That had to be written within 5 mins. There’s no intelligent argument there.
By the way, Keep the Faith was a great album. Sure it’s not Slippery, nor New Jersey, however the first 5 songs, plus Dry County are crackers.
Having said all of that, it does seem that JBJ is the one to blame for Bon Jovi’s recent output. Anyone seen the documentary? God Lord – It’s all about Jon. Even the band mates he’s been working with for the past 25 yrs can’t talk without his say-so.
good article bon jovi have been dead musically since 1995 if it wasnt for the stuff before that they wouldnt even make it onto the pages of cr
It’s a bit much to comment on the decline of a band without even hearing the latest album. I am a Bon Jovi fan and have seen them 8 times over the years dating back to the New Jersey tour which was probably their finest era. But let’s face it, none of us (including BJ) are in our teens/20’s now when songs like Blood on Blood resonated with you and your friends down the booza. Times move on and people get older and the things that drive them change. Bon Jovi have written consistently strong albums, with lots of great songs and IMO have nothing to prove. If they were to release Slippery or New Jersey today they would get laughed out of town. These were albums of their time and the guys that wrote those songs are not the same ones that are around today. Let’s move on and stop wishing it was 1985.
Having read both articles, I’m kind of sitting in the middle, but siding slightly with the “in favour” one as it actually has a case to argue.
Personally I, and most Bon Jovi fans, would say that “These Days” is the last great album Bon Jovi released. Having listened to “The Circle” a lot in the last 2 weeks, it’s probably their best since the 1996 release. Yes, track 3 is incredibly hypocritical considering the O2 ticket fiasco, but the rest of the album is just fine.
So JLS upstaged Bon Jovi on X-Factor did they?! Erm, one act performed live, the other mimed…..
On the flip side of backing the group, I do admit that I walked out of their Milton Keynes show in 2006 and the Twickenham show last summer was appalling.
They have lost the ability to entertain the crowd, relying on the old classics to pull the show back together.
Jon is undoubtedly becoming more and more of a twat, to the point where the new documentary just increases that opinion.
Any fan who thinks that Bon Jovi will write an album to rival Slippery, New Jersey or These Days is simply deluded. It won’t happen – the guys are now in their late 40s/early 50s and their topics are different.
In the 80’s they were single and childless – now they are all men with families (of some sort) who write about the impact of the world.
Shower of wankers ! , why waste your time with them ?
To Dave Ling – The box set is fantastic. It is 4 discs of previously unheard demos. A truly great thing for any die hard fan to have.
I agree about the ridiculous ticket prices for the 02 shows but that is the only thing I agree with here.
Also, you should listen to the new album, then tell us what you think!
How many people will be going to the o2 next year and paying £200 for a floor seat?
I Agree with 99% of what Dave says, although i think These Days was a good grown up rock album.
But what i do agree with is the hair thing. Im 46 and still do the concerts festivals and dress like a good headbanger should. I had very long hair in the 80s and some of the 90s, and had it cut off when I progressed at work. but im growing it again and would love to go back to the days of denium and patches even if we are too old.
These days was the last good album Bon Jovi made. After that..duh.. And about this article then..if the writer has not even listened to the new album – why should I care what he writes about ? And hey.. it all ain’t in the Hair..
I´m with you Dave….Bon Jovi died 1990 ! Today they´re just pussified Springsteen wannabees…….and they flunk miserably !!!!!
Bon Jovi have always been ‘weak’!
I’m going to the O2. My 45 quid has got me a row A ticket upstairs with an unobstructed view. I’m sure it’ll be great. My life will continue if Jon fails to glance in my direction. Album-wise, they’re hit and miss. Live, they’re on the button. SWW and NJ are still classics though.
Can’t stand Bon Jovi.
dave ling hits the nail on the head.
Well said Mr Ling! 84-86 was vintage for BJ and I’ll be surprised if I’m ever as switched on as I was seeing them support KISS. In 85 they were perfect gents happy to be living the dream – we supped pints at Manchester’s Britannia hotel and they couldn’t believe they’d sold out the Apollo. In 86 we hoiked up to Newcastle to catch them on the tube and bless old Tico if he didn’t come and find me after the show to hand over his sticks.
Fabulous music – brilliant attutude & they were loving it.
How did it all go so wrong? I had every single & 12″ released worldwide up to New Jersey & after that – the magic was gone, gone, gone. It’s like a part of my life was snuffed out by – the filthy dollar.
At least Gene Simmons has put the effort in for Sonic Boom & what a result! Can’t see The Circle giving us anything to rival early BJ. R.I.P. suckers. We loved you good.
so Mr Ling don`t like Bon Jovi due to Jon having his hair cut, what a twat
Very poorly written.
I don’t mind them, but he hasn’t picked on the correct subject matter.
Its amazing that the Circle is number 1 in america, top grossing tour etc etc. They aint just getting by they are thriving.
their new music may not comapre, but they are makming fresh sounding music and broadening their appeal.
How can you argue with that???
JBJ wont care what you write, he does his own thing, always has done.
And where are the Skid Rows, Ratt, Motley Crew???
Right now in 2009????
In a much worse position. They come back wearing the same clothes on another (yawn) come back tour.
Compare BJ against those peers. they had the quality in the 80’s to be the best, and they are a better band now.
Gone full circle, you may say.
i cant help but wonder about Dave Ling. he was the guy (as far as i know) that interviewed Alec Jon Such in the tell all interview back in 1994, which single handedly was enough for Alec to be asked to leave/fired from the band. I know JBJ’s reaction to this interview wasnt good and i think he even approached/came after Dave Ling before it was released.
considering i think JBJ probably has nothing good to say about Dave and probably made life difficult for him re: the article, i cant help feel that Mr Ling has a somewhat bias against BJ, regardless of what music they release.
i have been a fan since i was 6 (1986) and definitely agree their early stuff was the best right up until these days (the best album if you ask me). but what are they to do?? they either try something more adult and mature and reflective of their age and where they are at in life or they stick to writing 20 year old bubblegum songs and lose any chance of credibility all together.
its pretty harsh to insult a band who in their later life havent been able to quite knock-it-out-of-the-park like they did in earlier days. but hey you have to at least respect that they have tried to move with the times. dont hate on them because they are successful and have some (ok, a lot) of money. it is a business after all, and why shouldnt they be paid for bringing joy to so many people for years.
the problem i have with a lot of journos is this stupid attitude that been poor and writing about dark subjects = more artistic. whats wrong with writing about more positive stuff like BJ?? how is that any lest artistically credible.
yeah there recent albums have been well short of the mark set in earlier times. but what would you rather? a band that tries new things for themselves and their fans or some shitty band jumping on the retro bandwagon pedalling the old tunes…
the writer has some valid points, but loses cedibility with just ridiculous marks such as when he cut his hair. for someone who makes a living writing about music and artists this seems plain stupid….if he wishes to continue analysing things like this he should stick genres more suited e.g. the shitty pop music that is all over the radio at the moment..